Picture Gallery: 2008 Saturn Vue | Day 1 | Day 2 | Day 3 | Day 4 | Discuss
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Although the Vue is what most call a “mild” hybrid, it still provides approximately 25 per cent better fuel economy than a standard four-cylinder Vue. The system employed by GM is called the BAS (Belt/Alternator/Starter) system; read Jim Kerr’s excellent technical article on the system on CanadianDriver
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GM and the Saturn division have been making improvements to their vehicles in leaps and bounds in the past year or two and the Vue is no exception. Much-improved styling inside and out make this Vue more appealing to all and, of course, all plastic exterior panels have been eliminated from the Saturn showroom.
The Saturn division is certainly delivering what they promised: the Vue possesses a European-inspired look and feel, very much like the Astra hatchback. Standard equipment is plentiful in the Vue including: steering wheel mounted radio controls, tire pressure monitor, power windows and door locks and remote keyless entry, cruise control and automatic front air-conditioning.
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My tester adds the Hybrid premium package for $1,455 which adds: eight-way power adjustable driver’s seat, XM satellite radio, heated windshield washer nozzles, rain sensing wipers, heated outside mirrors and a leather wrapped steering wheel.
The Vue Hybrid is powered by a 2.4L DOHC I4 Ecotec engine and is mated to a four-speed automatic transmission with overdrive. It is only available with front-wheel drive, unlike like its rival, the Ford Escape hybrid which is available in both all-wheel drive and front-wheel drive layouts
2008 Saturn Vue Hybrid
MSRP as tested (including destination): $33,545
For more information on Saturn and the Vue visit GM Canada
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So that said, let’s go over the interior of the Vue. It’s gorgeous: sure some of the dash is made of hard plastics, but this is normal in this price range and not unexpected. What is unexpected are the soft-touch door panels and upper dash area, soft door panel inserts and a glove box lined with a felt / velvety material. All really high class stuff for a car in the $30,000 price range.
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The seats are unbelievably firm. Perhaps some may like this; I do like my seats firm, but not this firm. The bottom cushion cuts off circulation to my thighs and becomes very uncomfortable after a few minutes of driving. The driver’s seat creaks something nasty when leaned against. And, during one trip, the signal lights didn’t make any noise when flashing — odd.
I also find the driver’s seat does not go low enough for my liking, creating a very high seating position. I know a lot of drivers these days like a higher seating position, but in the Vue it seems unnatural.
The cargo area is spacious but no cargo cover was provided to hide my wares. The rear seats do fold perfectly flat — a huge bonus that makes loading larger cargo an easy task — and the headrests do not need to be removed to fold the seat as with some small SUVs.
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Most drivers won’t be whipping around corners in their new Vue, so perhaps that is irrelevant. Road noise is audible, and that is a fairly significant factor when buying a vehicle in this class. I also find the suspension is rather rough over my local roads, which are not in the best of shape anymore; more so than any recent vehicle I have taken on this route.
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I’ve noticed an interesting tidbit: use the Vue’s automatic climate control and the engine does not shut down when coming to a stop. Kind of defeats the purpose of the hybrid system or the climate control, which ever you decide is more important. Unlike other hybrid systems that are able to run on battery power at low speeds, the BAS system always requires the engine to be running.
The four-speed automatic transmission is kind of a letdown in the Vue as well. More gears could provide better acceleration, better fuel economy and smoother cruising. The Vue’s excellent interior will get you into the showroom and a short drive might win you over, but a longer 30-minute test drive may not be enough to seal the deal.
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I averaged 10L/100km over the week with the Vue Hybrid. Better than some small SUVs, I suppose, but not by much, and certainly no better than a small hatchback. The Vue is not much larger interior-wise than a hatchback either — like the Pontiac Vibe / Toyota Matrix or Mazda3 Sport. Basically with the Vue and many other small SUVs you get the looks of an SUV and not much more.
The Vue certainly looks great inside and out, but on the road it does not deliver as much as some of its competition.
*Rating out of 5:
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*Rating based on vehicle’s classification
2008 Saturn Vue Hybrid
MSRP as tested (including destination): $33,545
For more information on Saturn and the Vue visit GM Canada
September 15, 2008, 10:14:44 pm
September 15, 2008, 10:19:43 pm
Well I do...but when it's under warranty, I'll let the monkeys do it. I don't really think they are mechanics so much as "R&R" people. Would I trust them to actually rebuild an engine from a bare block? NEVER. Could they even do it? Maybe. But they certainly are capable of pulling an entire engine out and replacing it with a brand new one...which is what usually happens given that case. Ditto with a tranny. Or most any component for that matter.
At least the techs at our $tealership had a sense of humour after we brought in the Alero for the infamous intake gasket. As we were leaving, one of them said "See you in 10 months". Pricks....
September 15, 2008, 10:29:30 pm
Well I do...but when it's under warranty, I'll let the monkeys do it. I don't really think they are mechanics so much as "R&R" people. Would I trust them to actually rebuild an engine from a bare block? NEVER. Could they even do it? Maybe. But they certainly are capable of pulling an entire engine out and replacing it with a brand new one...which is what usually happens given that case. Ditto with a tranny. Or most any component for that matter.
At least the techs at our $tealership had a sense of humour after we brought in the Alero for the infamous intake gasket. As we were leaving, one of them said "See you in 10 months". Pricks....
September 15, 2008, 10:33:14 pm Not all....just what I need to know!!
September 15, 2008, 10:37:13 pm
WOT
September 15, 2008, 10:46:09 pm I see you're new here....so you can either believe me or not. Doesn't matter. I'm an engineer and a teacher at the college. And I DO know what they do there. I teach all Apprentices entering the mechanic, mouldmaker, toolmaker, millright, CNC and CAD/CAM/Designer courses.
It is not, however, my job to know what training they receive AFTER they leave school. Though to say all dealerships are equal simply isn't true. I can tell you this from experience. We've had a particularly dreadful experience from a particular dealership, while the other 2 where better, but still not stellar. Which means that:
1) Dealer 1 was just plain incompetent
2) Or dealership 2 and 3 were better trained.
September 15, 2008, 11:10:34 pm That's fine. But I still don't believe you are anything but a pimply faced kid with a Google based automotive education.
I know many hundred college automotive instructors across the country and they just wouldn't talk shit like you.("stealerships", "monkeys" "IQ of a washrack" "Pricks" etc etc) None of them. Furthermore the disciplines you describe that you're supposedly "teaching" are not part of any automotive apprenticeship curriculum that I'm aware of. (perhaps in some of the co-op or pre-employment stuff or possibly some bloated 2-year technology in some back-water college where they can't find qualified automotive instructors I guess)
I didn't say all dealerships were equal. I said they received equal mandatory training opportunities. Since you're an instructor I don't have to tell you how variations in how people RESPOND and APPLY that training, may vary. But if you think you can deal with even a 5 year old Alero applying "jack-of-all-trades" understanding... you would be wrong.
Now leave me alone, I don't have time for adolescent fools playing games.
WopOnTour
September 15, 2008, 11:28:11 pm I'm not sure how the apprenticeship works in your province. But ALL apprentices in Ontario MUST go to school and get their "basic" education requirement. For most, it's a 2 year diploma program, but some are 1 and others 3. After school, they have to accrue X number of hours on the job. Doesn't really matter where...in the case of a mechanic it could be a mom and pop type garage or a $tealership. As long as there is someone with their ticket there to sign off on their skills or their book. (Some apprentices have an official book with a list of skills that must be taught. Once each skill is mastered or learned in a satisfactory manner, that portion is signed off in their book). After all of their on-site apprenticeship hours are done, they can go in and write their Provincial test. Once they pass the test, they get their ticket.
No worries. Like I said....you either believe me or you don't. Many people here have met me and I can assure you, I'm no pimply faced kid (I wish). I even took our beloved forum leader, Wing, on a tour of an advanced automotive lighting manufacturing facility while he was in town for the AutoShow (PM him if you think I'm BSing). And pardon me if I'm not fond of $tealerships (is anyone???.) They over-charge for everything while not giving anything value-added back for their excessive charges. There isn't much that a good independent garage couldn't do over what a $tealership could. All for much cheaper. (Let me guess, you work at a $tealership...is that why you're so offended? )
September 16, 2008, 01:05:42 am
Your attitude towards OE technicians has clearly been twisted through some sort of unfortunate event. But let me assure you, there is very little a college level instructor can teach a good ol "factory trained" OE tech. So to prove a point I've changed my mind about wasting my time with you and your little holier-than-thou attitude.
So how about a little game/challenge?
You pick a technical automotive topic or vehicle system (absolutely anything you like; AIRBAGS, ABS,EVT, VVT,CVT, CAN, NVH,HCCI - ANYTHING you feel you have earned real "expertise" in automotive wise) and then explain it to me- "How It Works",when, how, before, now, to the best of your ability using perhaps 3 or 4 paragraphs (or as long as you need, but use your own words- just don't copy&paste shit then attempt to explain it, I'll see through it)
I then will explain to you how it REALLY works,system strategy, calibration details, design variations over the last 10 years, and clearly identify and correct for your weaknesses in the subject matter, AND even explain to you how it's correctly diagnosed to "root cause" in 2009 MY terms.
Then it will be my turn and we'll reverse the roles. Up for it?
Before you accept realize that pretty much any 10-year or more OE dealership technician has already spent as much time learning and working on these systems many times over the time you spent getting engineering degree to teach moulds and AutoCad for $85K, and I've been around much longer than that. My point is, I feel you don't know SQUAT about modern automobile engineering as compared to a TYPICAL "up-to-standard" technician at Ditchwater GM , @Anywhere.ca and I'm willing to prove it. So start a new thread smart guy and link me to it when you're done.
Monkey my ass.
Sincerely
WopOnTour
September 16, 2008, 01:29:45 am
Late night fun (or not)... RR, you have a lot of patience ...
September 16, 2008, 02:40:38 am
Your attitude towards OE technicians has clearly been twisted through some sort of unfortunate event. But let me assure you, there is very little a college level instructor can teach a good ol "factory trained" OE tech. So to prove a point I've changed my mind about wasting my time with you and your little holier-than-thou attitude.
So how about a little game/challenge?
You pick a technical automotive topic or vehicle system (absolutely anything you like; AIRBAGS, ABS,EVT, VVT,CVT, CAN, NVH,HCCI - ANYTHING you feel you have earned real "expertise" in automotive wise) and then explain it to me- "How It Works",when, how, before, now, to the best of your ability using perhaps 3 or 4 paragraphs (or as long as you need, but use your own words- just don't copy&paste
I then will explain to you how it REALLY works,system strategy, calibration details, design variations over the last 10 years, and clearly identify and correct for your weaknesses in the subject matter, AND even explain to you how it's correctly diagnosed to "root cause" in 2009 MY terms.
Then it will be my turn and we'll reverse the roles. Up for it?
Before you accept realize that pretty much any 10-year or more OE dealership technician has already spent as much time learning and working on these systems many times over the time you spent getting engineering degree to teach moulds and AutoCad for $85K, and I've been around much longer than that. My point is, I feel you don't know SQUAT about modern automobile engineering as compared to a TYPICAL "up-to-standard" technician at Ditchwater GM , @Anywhere.ca and I'm willing to prove it. So start a new thread smart guy and link me to it when you're done.
Monkey my ass.
Sincerely
WopOnTour
Well it doesn't really prove much. You beat me at your job, and I beat you at mine. Shrug. My GF is a nurse. I bet you'd kick her butt around the garage too...and vice versa. Any number of people here would kick our butts at their job and us them at our jobs. The college job is only my part-time gig. My full-time job I work in the auto industry...specifically vehicle lighting and optics. Though my previous engineering jobs including many different types: designing/building/FEA of custom motorcycle parts, helping develop software for a MotoGP team, LEAN Manufacturing, software development for CAD/CAM industry (Delcam, MasterCam, GibbsCam) to name a few. Heck, I was even offered a job with an F1 Team a long time ago. What does this all prove? Not much really...except that I've been around the block once or twice....so I just didn't fall off the turnip truck.
That being said....having built my own race cars and motorcycles, I could put up a better fight doing your job than you could at mine. But then again....that doesn't prove much either. Does one who is competent knowing the intricate operations of AIRBAGS, ABS, EVT, CVT...automatically mean they know everything about cars and therefore are THE definitive source for all things automotive? Nope. By that same token, does that lack of that knowledge in those details mean someone is less apt mechanically? Nope. I'm sure we both know some old school mechanics who wouldn't have a f****** clue what any of those acronyms mean...but they can fix almost anything under the sun correctly (and quickly), or can tune an engine like nobody's business.
I know that another member here, Barrie, is VERY competent building engines/cars...but would likely fail your anal test of auto acronyms. Or Arthur Dent here who is building a car in his garage. Or the moderator, Wing, who just threw a supercharger on his car. They'd fail it too I suspect. My GF for example can change her oil, do a complete brake job..and could probably even replace the turbo herself on my monster car...but she too would fail your acronym test. And while I'm no dummy....I understand the workings of most of those acronyms (haven't played with a VVT head yet though!), there is no doubt you could better explain their workings than I. But so could someone who spent a weeks reading technical articles....without ever actually touching a wrench. My point is...I don't need to know those acronyms to completely disassemble my car, the Alero, the 1970 Mustang Mach 1 we restored..or the countless race bikes I've built (anymore than you need to know what the refraction numbers are for the new Camaro optics we recently finished) . All I need to do is be able to put them back together properly so that they work better than when I took them apart. An analogy for you...I know some musicians who are the most talented musicians you could imagine...their skill with their instruments is immense. Oddly enough though they never learned to read music. Does that make them any less talented? I don't think so....
There is no doubt that most technicians, regardless of job type, spend countless hours training and upgrading. I do too. But I'm sure we both know people in our respective trades who aren't as competent as others. And like I said...the dealership we had used in the past was populated by a bunch of chimps. If you want to contact via PM, I'll fill you in about all of the crap we've dealt with at the $tealership with regards to the Alero. You have an intimate knowledge of GMs by the sounds of it, and could likely answer my question in the blink of an eye. The technicians we've dealt with could not. Multiple times.
It seems I've really hit your button...which is kinda funny. At first you accused me of being some "pimply kid" and you could care less. But man..did this "pimply kid" ever get under your skin or what!! LOL Why is that? Self-esteem problem? Or maybe just a late nite after a crap-tastic day?
I won't apologize...since nothing I said in this thread from beginning to end was a lie or untrue. I also don't think you've got much ground to stand on as far as having the Alero serviced in either my garage or an independent garage vs. the excessive prices at the dealership. Thus far, I have found nothing that I couldn't do on that car that I HAD to take it to the dealership to fix (under warranty notwithstanding, for obvious reasons). Nothing. Nada. Nil. All work I would have been charged out the wazoo for. I see no value added going to a $tealership for the work. That's not to say I'd never go there...but only if it was absolutely necessary. Like if some piece of special service tool/equipment was necessary to get the job done. One I couldn't buy or make. THEN I'd grudgingly take my car in for that specialized repair.
And I'll go one farther. There are many enthusiasts here. I bet they feel the same as me. If they can fix the car themselves..it's never going to be in a $tealership...EVER. Take a poll....
September 16, 2008, 02:41:27 am
Late night fun (or not)... RR, you have a lot of patience ...
Meh..no biggie. We're just chatting. He's taking it a bit personally though. I see this often with people in the trades. They feel slighted because the Average Joe doesn't realize how long it takes to get your papers/ticket for skilled trades. Plus, as he mentioned, it's a job that you have to continually upgrade if you want to keep earning good $$ or stay competitive. It's alot of work. Also, it just doesn't sound glamorous. "I'm a machinist" or "I'm a mechanic" is often under-appreciated or thought to be less important than other jobs. Even though, as he pointed out, most of these jobs involve much skill in modern facilities using the most modern equipment. Not some dingy poorly lit shoppe as in years past. It's an image thing. Which is one reason that the enrollment for skilled trades is way down in Ontario...that and there are fewer jobs to go around, plus fewer businesses willing to take on an apprentice. It's different in other countries, particularly some European countries where tradesmen get HUGE respect.
September 16, 2008, 06:34:34 am Rrocket - Patience of Job award 2008 Gold class.
I would have given up that argument a long time ago.
September 16, 2008, 08:08:38 am What I don't get is why anyone would give up Monaco, hot girls, big boats and the roar of F1 engines to work in Windsor.
September 16, 2008, 10:24:52 am I don't get hybrids that don't achieve very good fuel economy. The Vue barely beats our Forester and our Forester lacks all that added "technology." Seems stupid to pay a ton of extra money when you could have had bought a $27K Subaru, got AWD, and similar fuel economy.
September 16, 2008, 11:10:29 am
Don't be so harsh....not everybody can see the big picture.
Of course, I never understood why they didn't make the Focus Hybrid over the Escape Hybrid.
September 16, 2008, 12:25:10 pm
Late night fun (or not)... RR, you have a lot of patience ...
Meh..no biggie. We're just chatting. He's taking it a bit personally though.
You are too gentle again. He was insulting you ...
I have great respect for any honest working person regardless of type of work he/she does.
However, how can I qualify a certified mechanic at a dealership who tells me that I have a CVT tranny in my car when I have a traditional automatic and he's supposed to service my car.
September 16, 2008, 03:33:06 pm
Hahahahah....yea. That's what everyone thinks. All glamour. The position was one where you didn't get to travel with the team to the track and wear the fancy uniforms! They kept you locked away in the shoppe.
While on topic, I had a friend who worked in Detroit for an F1 Team several years back. He was an engineer who was part of the powertrain team, namely the engine. He also didn't travel with the team. Man...this guy wouldn't even enjoy the race. He'd sit there and listen. During the race pacing the floor, making/receiving calls.....basically terrified that if something wasn't right with the engine, he'd be called onto the carpet for it. He was generally a pile of nerves before, during and after the race. I only watched a race with him once after that experience. From the exterior (as a car guy) working for an F1 would seem awesome. But the reality was...it wasn't a terribly good job IMO.
You can still apply for jobs for most teams....I still sometimes see ads in the back of F1-related magazines.
September 16, 2008, 03:38:00 pm
You are too gentle again. He was insulting you ...
Meh..it's the internet. I don't know the guy. Maybe he was just having a bad day. I don't get upset from what people say here. Insult away....
September 16, 2008, 04:07:45 pm Ok yer car is SICK and yer g/f PHAT.....
September 16, 2008, 04:56:24 pm
Of course, I never understood why they didn't make the Focus Hybrid over the Escape Hybrid.
Back in 05 the Focus would be up against the civic, prius and the insight.
The Escape Hybrid at the time would be up against??
Nothing until the following year, the Highlander and RX-400H came out and they were 10K and 35K more respectively.
September 16, 2008, 06:23:39 pm
Is not the major thing about the hybrids is lower emissions and rally not fuel savings
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ using this web site, CO2 for a Vue was 6 metric tonn, Forester 7.6
September 19, 2008, 07:42:57 pm
Lost my interest (as do all cars) when it did not offer a 5spd manual... I guess North Americans like their cars to be nice a boring... stick it in drive and off u go
October 05, 2008, 03:04:56 am Hi folks,
In my book, it all comes down to individual needs and driving habits.
I studied both Escape and Vue Hybrids before making a decision for my own specific needs and here are the highlights of why I leaned more towards the 2008 Saturn Vue:
Since I mostly do highway driving...
1- Need to have the best highway fuel consumption rating;
2- Need the best fuel range capacity on a single tank;
3- Need to have the best financing rate.
4- Also, a "nice to have" is at least 1500lbs of towing capacity option (minimum for a small trailer tent and the Escape is limited to 1000lbs...).
Was looking for the fuel consumption range of a Pontiac Vibe but needed the storage space of a minivan (was returning Venture rental van because of ludicrous gas prices)...
So the best compromise was a compact SUV and between these two Hybrids:
2008 Saturn VUE Hybrid Front-wheel Drive
VS
2008 Ford Escape Hybrid 4dr Front-wheel Drive
Vue Escape
Price (MSRP)* $30,790 $31,499
Engine 2.4L I-4 2.3L I-4
Engine 2.4L I-4 2.3L I-4
Horsepower 172 @ 5,800 rpm 133 @ 6,000 rpm
Torque 167 @ 4,500 rpm 124 @ 4,250 rpm
Fuel economy city 8.2 L/100 km 5.7 L/100 km
Fuel economy highway 6.1 L/100 km 6.7 L/100 km
Towing capacity 680 kg (1500lbs) 454 kg (1000lbs)
Fuel tank 73.8 L 57.0 L
(68.1L manual spec)
Min range (km) 830 1000
Max range (km) 1116 851
The choice was clear for my needs and driving the 2008 Vue for the last 8000km has been a great experience for me and in line with my expectations.
I must say that the best highway fuel economy average over 200km that I managed to get by modifying my driving habits and not exceeding the speed of 100km/h got me down to 6.2 L/100km and for a compact SUV, that's more than good enough for me.
Going on vacation and driving to the east coast (mostly highway with significant sustained hills going through the White Mountains) and some city driving at destination got me 850km on a single tank.
Also, the best highway driving conditions I reached was 1050km so far when the trip and range meters were added at some point before reaching city driving conditions...
On the other hand, if I go back to my previous old driving habits (hit on the gas and brakes a lot and exceed 100km/h), then the fuel consumption goes through the roof and well above 9-10 L/100km and it seems to take forever for the average to get back down after I go back to my new driving habits. Increased city driving for typical stop and go accelerations just seems to kill the fuel consumption score/rate too; however I guess that's what can be expected from any gas powered solution.
So for people that would need to select between these two models for significant city driving, my guess is that fuel consumption will most likely translate to better figures (according to specs) on the Ford Escape; however until we go full electric, I suspect that driving habits will continue to play an important factor in the equation whether you go Hybrid or not. (But that's another story...)
BTW As reported earlier in this forum tread, I also encountered on a few (2-3) separate occasions the intriguing "no flashing sound" when the turn signal is activated (either side, right or left or even if I try the hazards) and the only thing that I did both times this happened, is that I may have been playing with the onboard computer display switching around the monitoring options (instant & average consumption, tire pressure, compass...) while starting the car with the ignition key. Don't know if this is repeatable (have not tried to duplicate) but that's the only common action that I recall doing when I saw this glitch.
In any event, for me that's not a big deal and definitively not a show stopper since the light in the dash confirms the flasher is working and the light from the actual flasher outside worked as well when this happened. Moreover, the flasher sound eventually came back (right after or the next day? I forget...) on subsequent restart(s).
One last comment on highway speed vs fuel consumption:
When I reach cruising speed at 100km/h and driving on a flat surface and in a straight line (on a calm day, no wind...), the "in dash" efficient fuel consumption green light will stay on 100% of the time telling me that I am at par or better than the target reported efficient fuel consumption rate; however going up a hill or hitting the gas to accelerate will shut off this light and remind me about sticking to my new driving habits. That is a great tool to have and every car should have it (Hybrid or not!)...
Finally, for typical highway driving conditions at 100km/h, I would say that the light is on most of the time, however, if I cruise at 110km/h, I would say it turns off more or less half the time and at 120km/h, I would estimate that the light is on less then half the time reporting the obvious fact that I am clearly out of the target fuel efficiency zone.
This experience has thought me a lot about my driving habits and if I had to do it all over again, I would choose the same path. I would however not recommend this compact SUV for stressed drivers or anyone that expects to get the reported fuel consumption spec ratings without changing their driving habits.
The performance of the Vue hybrid is better than the regular 4 cylinder model and available when you need it, but you just have to use it wisely knowing the impact on fuel consumption down the road.
In any event, I hope that sharing my experience with everybody will help people figure out whether the Vue is right for them or not based on individual needs and mind set on changing driving habits.
Sincerely, a happy Canadian Saturn Vue Hybrid customer.
October 05, 2008, 04:48:57 pm BTW, remember to make sure tire pressure is @ 38psi (260kpa)... With the winter coming our way here in Canada (and cooler temperature throughout this transition), tire pressure can drop significantly therefore also contributing to inefficient fuel consumption average. Even though the TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitoring System) will not report the reduced pressure as a warning, I noticed that cranking back the pressure to 38psi put me back on track. A quick cycle through the onboard computer (early in the morning when it's cold) tells you how far from the 38psi target you are actually at. Try it out... I was surprised how far off the change in temperature made my tire pressure drift. Before I bought my 2008 Saturn Vue Hybrid, I was not necessarily looking for TPMS but now that I've got this option, I'm sold on it! Just another tool to help me focus on achieving optimal fuel consumption! Use it wisely...
Sincerely & yours truly, a happy Canadian Saturn Vue Hybrid customer. :-)