Author Topic: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA  (Read 25140 times)

Don_Serl

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Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« on: January 14, 2006, 05:15:53 pm »
Shopping for a new auto? Have you compared MSRPs on the American sites with equivalent vehicles here in Canada? Well, you're in for a rude shock: we're being overcharged (typically) about $2000 for small cars, about $3000 for standard sedans, and $4000 to $8000 (!!!) for popular SUVs and mini-vans.

(btw, till now GM Canada has been a pleasant exception to this practise - they seem to more-or-less follow a "parity pricing" policy - but with their just-announced price reductions in the US, will they follow suit here in Canada?)

I've written to about a dozen of the involved companies. The responses were similar:
a) Canada and the US are separate markets with separate pricings, and
b) prices are set in each market with an eye to competitive positioning.
One company went so far as to tell me that if I wanted to buy a lower-priced equivalent vehicle in the States, the dealer would run afoul of distribution agreements banning "sales for export" - this despite the fact Canadian law allows the importation of virtually all current vehicles once relatively minor Transport Canada regulations have been met. Not to mention Auto Pact, Free Trade, cross-border-shopping, etc, etc...

These distributors seem to believe that most people haven't even noticed, that most of those who are aware don't care, and that the few who DO care are incapable of changing the situation. Most companies acknowledge other "inquiries" on the same subject, but none even so much as hints at any action. Meanwhile the Canadian dollar continues to rise against the greenback, making the situation worse each day.

In a way, they are right. I have heard nothing from the automotive press, nor the business press, about this situation. The Consumers Association of Canada pays lots of attention to auto insurance, but has so far failed to take up the issue of auto pricing disparities. Our governments get arm-twisted by the auto companies into providing them with hundreds of millions of dollars of "incentives" to maintain manufacturing facilities, but do nothing to respond on behalf of the taxpaying consumers when those same companies then "thank us" by overcharging by thousands of dollars per vehicle.

This situation is untenable and unsustainable, and it surprises me greatly that companies of the size of automotive giants could be so shortsighted (and/or arrogant/greedy) at the Board and Senior Management level that they would allow themselves to be trapped into a situation in which huge amounts of good-will are going to evaporate once the public-at-large discovers that they haven't gotten "such a good deal' on their recently purchased automobile. Don't they see that affordability is a key to increasing sales? Can't they identify home improvements, vacations, electronics, and so on as their true competition for consumer dollars? Don't they understand the value of "fairness" to Canadians"?

So long as Canadian auto consumers remain ignorant and quiet, nothing will change. Surf a few sites and compare a few prices to confirm the reality, then DO SOMETHING. Get onto an automobile distributor's website or two and let 'em know of your disapproval. It's not necessary to get angry - in fact it's generally both impolite and ineffective - but it IS necessary to air your concerns. Ask your local election candidate what their policy is on this matter. Drop an e-mail to the business columnist of your favorite newspaper. Raise this issue in other forums. Ask your local auto dealer what their thoughts are on this disparity, and how it might be affecting their business.

Once the "volume" reaches an embarrassing level, the prices will come into line. I hope it happens soon, cuz I'm shopping, and I certainly couldn't live with myself and "take pride in" my new vehicle if I overpaid as much as the companies currently want me to do.

Enjoy your day,
Cheers,
Don

Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2006, 05:33:56 pm »
This has been discussed many times on this forum.  Yes, by buying from the States you can save as much as $10 000 over buying locally.  Take a look at the Honda S2000 and Subaru STi.

The reason?  Markets.  Less cars are sold in Canada than in America, so in order for dealers to survive they have to make more money from each vehicle sold.  It's not greed (not entirely, anyway :D), it's market conditions.

Don't like it?  Go to the States.

Offline ovr50

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2006, 05:37:09 pm »
Welcome to the Forum, Don. This is not the first time this topic has been raised on here.

The two markets are different, just as vehicles made in Japan selling in Australia are priced differently than the same vehicle is in Canada. Each country sets its own levels of duty and taxes on vehicles. Additionlly, each country has different safety and environmental rules to be adhered to. It is not just a simple matter of taking the two prices (Canada and US price) and converting the dollars at today's rates.

Even if it were that simple, about 3 to 5 years ago, it was the reverse situation where Canadian prices were LESS than those of comparable cars in the US. Didn't hear Canadians complaining then, did you? In fact, many vehciles went South to the US due to that pricing discrepancy.

The fact that US and Canada share a common 3000 mile border, and both use "dollars" as a monetary unit, leads one to think prices should be equal, converted for exchange rates only. NOT SO.

The prices are what they are in Canada. You should have bought 5 years ago when they were a "better deal" and the US guys were getting the "sharp end of the stick".

It's a wasted argument IMO.
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sterling

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2006, 05:42:36 pm »
Quote
Less cars are sold in Canada than in America, so in order for dealers to survive they have to make more money from each vehicle sold.

Just to clarify, dealers don't make any more per unit sold than U.S. dealers. Their cost from the manufacturers is that much higher than in the U.S. also.

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2006, 05:52:50 pm »
Demo, I don't think it's the dealers that are making the 'extra' money.  Snowy recently posted the dealer cost for a Mini Cooper S.  That dealer cost was substantially more than the retail price in the US. 
Ovr, I agree with you, but it still ticks me off that a car such as the Honda Civic, which is built in Canada, is sold for less in the US (and has lower PDI/Fr. charges.
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Offline tenpenny

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2006, 06:26:22 pm »
You're missing something:  everything is priced to what the market will bear; in other words, the people who set the prices set them to maximize overall gross profit, which is profit per car times number sold.

Who cares whether the price of a car is the US is higher or lower?  Not the manufacturers.  They have established sales targets and profit margins, and set their prices to (hopefully) make them.  They don't care whether you think the car is priced higher or lower as compared to another country.  It is of absolutely no relevance.  All they care about is pricing for the market.  The rest is absolutely meaningless.

My diesel car self-identifies as an electric vehicle.

sterling

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2006, 07:14:29 pm »
That's a good point. Too many people seem to think that lower prices on consumer goods is an inalienable right laid out in the Charter. Complaining to any company that their prices are too high will be met with total indifference if the product continues to sell to their satisfaction.

Now, the exception to this would be if every seller of a certain product conspired to raise prices. But I don't think that is being claimed here.

mdxtasy

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2006, 07:18:54 pm »
Here we go again.  The search button does wonders and can get you the same arguements already lined up in an older forum.   ::)

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2006, 10:31:19 pm »
Welcome Don.  Good first post.  :thumbup:

Don't let the neg-os drive you away as many, many discussions here are recycled.

(btw, till now GM Canada has been a pleasant exception to this practise - they seem to more-or-less follow a "parity pricing" policy - but with their just-announced price reductions in the US, will they follow suit here in Canada?)

From what I've read GM Canada is not participating in the GM reductions, which just emphasises your point.  How can that be justified?

Don, come on over to the Political Forum; got some real neg-os over there. :rofl:

mdxtasy

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2006, 11:10:05 pm »
Everybody's a comedian.   ::)

How can any price of any commodity be justified?  I price it the way I want to price it.  That's how I run my business.  I know what the market will take and pay....and go with it.  If I'm out of line, the market will let me know by not buying it if it's too high, and if it's too low, I won't be able to keep enough on the shelves and I'll be losing potential profit. 

Is it really over-charging?  Because something is cheaper in another part of the world, it's not fair and we complain.  If it's cheaper here and more expensive elsewhere......we keep quiet?  I wonder how many of us complain our gas is cheap compared to Europe?  I wonder how many of us complain about how cheap our cars are when compared to Japan? 

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2006, 11:38:26 pm »
Good thought, mdx, but I think it loses some its steam when you realize that there is no ocean seperating Canada and the USA: just a line on a map.  And in some cases (i.e. Honda Civic) the car is built here, therefor the mentality is it should be cheaper here.

*shrug*

I've accepted market differences between USA and Canada, but I still wonder at it sometimes, for those reasons.

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2006, 11:48:45 pm »
Don, good first post.  :thumbup:

mdxtasy

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2006, 12:05:11 am »
Thanks for the great intro.  It doesn't matter if it's a line or an ocean that separates the two distinct markets.  All the large organizations are multinational, global firms that operate in all markets.  You think they price each market the same?  Think it's a simple exchange rate issue?  The national subsidiaries have the same parent company but that's about it.  Each one operates independently and each one is responsible for their own success.  GM Canada has a CEO, GM USA has a CEO, GM Europe, Exxon Canada, Exxon USA etc......Why?  Because they have to work and succeed in that market....regardless of what the other countries are doing. 

So are we getting hosed?  If you think about it from a simple perspective, yes....we do pay more on average over a similarly equipped US car.  If you do a search, possible explainations as to why is discussed thoroughly.

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2006, 12:19:16 am »
:D  I know these things.  Many people, though, will look at Canada/US differently from Canada/Japan because we're right next to one another.  My point is that those people who are not so knowledgable about world economics etc. are left wondering why the price is so different when "it's only an hour's drive from my house".

mdxtasy

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2006, 03:03:25 am »
Wasn't talking to you directly Demo....it was a post in general.

enochpeng

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2006, 07:46:08 am »
to solve this problem, is it possible to import cars from the US?    if possible, is it "easy"...?
i'm actually an international student, and i heard about the temporary importing....

could someone tell me a bit more about importing..  plz

thanks a lot

Offline tenpenny

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2006, 09:16:26 am »
Good thought, mdx, but I think it loses some its steam when you realize that there is no ocean seperating Canada and the USA: just a line on a map.  And in some cases (i.e. Honda Civic) the car is built here, therefor the mentality is it should be cheaper here.

*shrug*

I've accepted market differences between USA and Canada, but I still wonder at it sometimes, for those reasons.

The line on the map is...an international boundary.  That's the point.  The whole point.  End of story.

hondasalesguy

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2006, 09:50:28 am »
This thread is like deja vu all over again...

People in Canada seem to think they have the God given right to pay less for everything than the rest of the world does.

An acre of real estate in Hong Kong is exponentially higher than one in Vancouver.

A litre of gas is more anywhere in Europe than it is even at its highest price in Canada.

A big fat steak in Tokyo will cost 5 x as much as one in Montreal.


So what?

World markets are all very different and not many of understand the economics of why that is.

I've heard that BMWs are much more expensive in Germany than they are in neighbouring, poorer countries.

It's called, and this has been hammered home several times before, "charging what the market will bear"

Get over it people, since very few of you will go to the bother of importing a car from the U.S.

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2006, 10:32:12 am »
Don Serl...

Good post!  You wouldn't happen to be a climber would you?  I know of a Don Serl...

crolly

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Re: Canadian Auto Distributors Overcharging $2000-$8000 vs USA
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2006, 11:00:50 am »
Everybody's a comedian.   ::)

If it's cheaper here and more expensive elsewhere......we keep quiet?  I wonder how many of us complain our gas is cheap compared to Europe?  I wonder how many of us complain about how cheap our cars are when compared to Japan? 

Mr defly will agree to this... cars (and petrol) in the UK are expensive... they get paid a lot though.