CD Article: 2009 Dodge Challenger

[2hondas]

I don't see a handbrake on this car. It might be that this is required in GB for standard shift versions if exporting were a union requirement. Starting on a steep hill without rolling backwards is a challenge without one. Did someone say rigid rear axle.

Its probably a foot hand brake.

[sailor723]

I just don't get the attraction of these type of cars. Even as a kid in the 60's I always thought Jag E types and Aston's were cool and American muscle cars were kind of cheap and silly.

Just my 2 cents....to each his own

[ovr50]

I just don't get the attraction of these type of cars. Even as a kid in the 60's I always thought Jag E types and Aston's were cool and American muscle cars were kind of cheap and silly.

Just my 2 cents....to each his own

With that thought in mind, I was looking at a beauty '09 Alpine White M3 Sedan today..............

V8, 414hp, DCT tranny, 0-60 in 4.9...........

Somebody stop me.......

[sailor723]

I just don't get the attraction of these type of cars. Even as a kid in the 60's I always thought Jag E types and Aston's were cool and American muscle cars were kind of cheap and silly.

Just my 2 cents....to each his own

With that thought in mind, I was looking at a beauty '09 Alpine White M3 Sedan today..............

V8, 414hp, DCT tranny, 0-60 in 4.9...........

Somebody stop me.......

+1     

[tpl]

You're only young once Ovr.   Within 2 years the anti-car league will have banned the M3.

[DanYanoff]

The car looks much better in person, in black especially. What I don't approve of is them using skinny tires on a 'classic' car.

[Mitlov]

I don't see a handbrake on this car. It might be that this is required in GB for standard shift versions if exporting were a union requirement. Starting on a steep hill without rolling backwards is a challenge without one.

The Challenger has a pedal parking brake.  It also has a "hill start assist" function on the transmission so that it won't roll backwards at all when starting uphill from a stop.

Did someone say rigid rear axle.

If they did, they had no clue what they were talking about, because the Challenger has a sophisticated independent rear suspension borrowed from Mercedes-Benz.

[Demosthenes X]

If they did, they had no clue what they were talking about, because the Challenger has a sophisticated independent rear suspension borrowed from Mercedes-Benz.

Someone on the internet without a clue?   

[Mitlov]

I just don't get the attraction of these type of cars. Even as a kid in the 60's I always thought Jag E types and Aston's were cool and American muscle cars were kind of cheap and silly.

Just my 2 cents....to each his own

The thing is, the current crop of muscle cars is unrelated to the 1960s versions driving-wise.  Sure, they're still powerful and cheap with iffy interiors.  But muscle cars used to have treacherous, dangerous, catastrophic handling and braking.  The current generation of Challenger and Camaro are honestly more like autobahn cruisers minus the luxury (and half the price).  They're heavy, so they're not going to be super-agile, but they're composed and confident on fast sweepers, not unlike an E-Class AMG.

I tend to prefer my cars smaller and lighter...but a BMW 650i minus the luxury and half the price (and with better exterior looks in my opinion) certainly has its place.

[Mitlov]

If they did, they had no clue what they were talking about, because the Challenger has a sophisticated independent rear suspension borrowed from Mercedes-Benz.

Someone on the internet without a clue?   

I know.  Shocking.  Just shocking.  Has this ever happened before?

[Rupert]

Ah yes, can't roll back. Should have read more closely. OK.

Ah yes, the Mustang is rgid beam rear axle...sorry.

[Giant Dwarf]

I just don't get the attraction of these type of cars. Even as a kid in the 60's I always thought Jag E types and Aston's were cool and American muscle cars were kind of cheap and silly.

Just my 2 cents....to each his own

The thing is, the current crop of muscle cars is unrelated to the 1960s versions driving-wise.  Sure, they're still powerful and cheap with iffy interiors.  But muscle cars used to have treacherous, dangerous, catastrophic handling and braking.  The current generation of Challenger and Camaro are honestly more like autobahn cruisers minus the luxury (and half the price).  They're heavy, so they're not going to be super-agile, but they're composed and confident on fast sweepers, not unlike an E-Class AMG.

Or perhaps another way to look at it is that the original muscle cars had a lot more power than most other cars of the era.  That made them quicker, but they still didn't handle or brake much better than most big sedans of the era.  Isn't the same true today of the portly Challenger? 

The current issue of Car and Driver seems to disagree with you.  Some nuggets from the article:
"Only the heavy, vague steering is a burden, and we wish the brake pedal wasn’t quite so swampy."

"... it bobs, and it squats back and squirms at full throttle like a fat man settling onto a cold toilet seat. Dodge fits the R/T with all-season Goodyear Eagle RS-As, the same tires you might fit to your pastor’s Diplomat. Trying to corral 4140 pounds on a twisty road, they backslide into a decent impersonation of Goodyear’s long-gone Polyglas donuts."

"Want to know what the glory years were really like? Find out...in the Challenger, where the understeer is relentless..."

You can read the rest here:  http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/2010_chevy_camaro_ss_vs_2010_ford_mustang_gt_2009_dodge_challenger_r_t_comparison_test/(page)/1

Oh, and comparing the Challenger to a (cheap) 6-series ain't really selling it much either.  I've called the 6-series Germany's expensive Camaro on a few occasions.  Over-sized, heavy and minimal interior space all with a nice big engine. 

[ovr50]

Just to revive this a bit, I had the chance today to stop by the local Chev dealers, and see if any new Camaros were there. There were two in the showroom, both black. One was a SS, the other a RS. Both marked "Sold".

A couple comments - 1. in the "real", I think the car reads much bigger than I had imagined it. It is over 190" long (same as my 535) but it just looks really BIG to me. I didn't like the black ones in the "real" as much as I like it in pictures. 2. the dash area looks (to me) junky in pictures, but in fact in reality is not so bad. Still a bit on the weird side, but not as bad as I had imagined. 3. Interior space seems cramped for such a large car.

The car does little for me, as does the Challenger. My choice of the 3 new "muscle cars" from Detroit would be the new Mustang (seems it is Car&Driver'd choice as well, in the new issue it beats the other two, with far less hp).

The 2 Camaros were beside a lightly used 2007 Corvette. That car looks much better than the Camaro, IMO. Although Ford has done well financially with the Mustang since it came out in 2005, I doubt that GM and Chrysler will do as well with their cars in this segment.

[Demosthenes X]

There's a black Challenger around town here, and I agree...  it just looks bland.  IMO the Challenger needs to be in a bright, "look at me" colour to really look good.  I love it in HEMI orange, but it's a letdown in black.

The Mustang does not suffer the same deficit.  I've yet to see a Camaro in the flesh (save for a yellow one going the other way on the 401), but in photos it looks good in most colours, I think.

[shawcross]

where is the spark plug on a 2009 challenger se i can't seem to find it

[Erik]

Having driven an SRT8, I have to say what surprised me most was the level of refinement. It actually felt much more expensive than it was. Probably due to the fact that it was an older gen E series under the skin. I recall no issues with clutch pressure (clutch was MUCH nicer than in the G37), and it was an immensely comfortable car to drive. It actually felt like a modernized GT. Very much the kind of car Aston Martin used to make. Of the three pony cars, the Challenger was certainly the one that I would have chosen for a drive from here to California. Even had a real, usable trunk.
First Mopar in a decade that I really enjoyed.