CTC Review: 2009 Infiniti G37x Sedan

[Jaeger]

Taking these areas into consideration, the G 37 goes a bit further than an RX-8 to accomodate the NA market needs, making it less Japanese in the long run.
How's that for a consideration?

The RX-8 is a performance sports coupe (door count notwithstanding).  The G is a sedan.  Of course it is more accomodating. That doesn't make the G less Japanese than the RX-8 any more than it makes the Lexus GS less Japanese than the 370Z.

Now if Nissan turned the G into a big, bloated boulevard cruiser (kind of like Honda did with the Accord) you might have an argument that it has been North-Americanized to the point of losing its Japanese identity.  But so far as I can tell, AudiLover is the only one who sees any equivalence between the Accord and the G.

Again - generalizations aside - please point to the specifc features of the G which make it less "Japanese" than other current "Japanese" sedans.  I honestly don't see them.

walt s - congrats on the new ride.  For what it's worth, C/D ranked the G second to the BMW, but by no means considered it "second tier". 

Jaeger

[G unit]

Not sure how many ppl have actually driven in a 3 series, but it is really only a smidgen bigger than Honda Civic.  I was surprised to find even a Toyota Camry feeling more spacious. If looking for a true sports sedan that can accomodate an actual family, I think the 5 series is a better choice.

[johngenx]

Not sure how many ppl have actually driven in a 3 series, but it is really only a smidgen bigger than Honda Civic.  I was surprised to find even a Toyota Camry feeling more spacious. If looking for a true sports sedan that can accomodate an actual family, I think the 5 series is a better choice.

I have an actual family and our Corolla is large enough.

[Mitlov]

These conclusory statements are an entirely valid expression of your opnion, but not terribly enlightening.  The TSX is quintissentially Japanese?  Okay, what are the design elements or performance aspects that make it so?  The RX-8 is quintissentially Japanese?  Okay, what are the design elements or performance aspects that make it so?  And what elements of the G-37 are un-Japanese?

This is the problem.  There's no question the G is good objectively--I've said so as clearly as I can.  But you've got a beef with my subjective, intangible characterizations--"it factor," character, etc.  And you're demanding that I list the objective criteria used to define "it factor" or character.  But that's the thing about subjective intangibles--they're not defined by objective criteria!  There's no five measurements that make a car "Teutonic" or "Japanese," "sexy" or "bland."  It's just like how you can't list objective criteria that make a movie pornographic, or explain the distinction between erotica and pornography with objective criteria.  You know it when you see it, but any attempt to define it with objective criteria ultimately is going to fail.  And different people are going to put that boundary in different places, without either of them being "wrong."

There's not a specific set of measurable objective characteristics that make a car have the "it factor" for me.  I can explain my subjective judgments, but by definition, those explanations are also going to be based on subjective intangibles, and apparently, that isn't good enough for you.  You're asking that I explain my subjective judgments with objective criteria, and that's just not going to happen.

[TopGun]

Oh and the G37 still has an oil dipstick while the BMW not has not, a true driving enthusiast likes to look and check the oil quality rather than grumbling about the nature of the interior design. 

That settles it then...we RX-8 owners are the ultimate in enthusiasts!

[Just Bob]

Oh and the G37 still has an oil dipstick while the BMW not has not, a true driving enthusiast likes to look and check the oil quality rather than grumbling about the nature of the interior design. 

That settles it then...we RX-8 owners are the ultimate in enthusiasts!

Along with every other dipstick! 

[TopGun]

These conclusory statements are an entirely valid expression of your opnion, but not terribly enlightening.  The TSX is quintissentially Japanese?  Okay, what are the design elements or performance aspects that make it so?  The RX-8 is quintissentially Japanese?  Okay, what are the design elements or performance aspects that make it so?  And what elements of the G-37 are un-Japanese?

Another TopGun line is applicable here Mitlov - "No way, Goose. He'd have fired by now.  He's just trying to p!$$ us off."

I entirely see what you mean Mitlov.  I for sure see the RX-8 as being, perhaps , unabashedly Japanese....while the G37 is trying to be German and Japanese at the same time.

[Jaeger]

This is the problem.  There's no question the G is good objectively--I've said so as clearly as I can.  But you've got a beef with my subjective, intangible characterizations--"it factor," character, etc.  And you're demanding that I list the objective criteria used to define "it factor" or character.  But that's the thing about subjective intangibles--they're not defined by objective criteria!  There's no five measurements that make a car "Teutonic" or "Japanese," "sexy" or "bland."  It's just like how you can't list objective criteria that make a movie pornographic, or explain the distinction between erotica and pornography with objective criteria.  You know it when you see it, but any attempt to define it with objective criteria ultimately is going to fail.  And different people are going to put that boundary in different places, without either of them being "wrong."

There's not a specific set of measurable objective characteristics that make a car have the "it factor" for me.  I can explain my subjective judgments, but by definition, those explanations are also going to be based on subjective intangibles, and apparently, that isn't good enough for you.  You're asking that I explain my subjective judgments with objective criteria, and that's just not going to happen.

You are letting your imagination run away with you again.  I have no "beef" with your indifference toward the G.  I have said as clearly as I can that if a car doesn't do it for you, then it doesn't do it for you.  And of course you can't measure or quantify the degree of "Japaneseness" of a car.  But if you are going to make statements like "The G isn't very Japanese" I would expect that you would be at least be able to at least articulate why.

Clearly, my expectations run too high. 

Carry on.

Jaeger

[Mitlov]

But if you are going to make statements like "The G isn't very Japanese" I would expect that you would be at least be able to at least articulate why.

Clearly, my expectations run too high. 

Carry on.

The heavy, bulbous lines of the G35 (inside and out) strike me as very un-Japanese, as does the heavy control feel (heavy steering, severely heavy clutch, high-effort shifter) in the previous generation.  Haven't test-driven this generation.  Of course, that's not all there is to it, but like I've said, it's a feeling, not a list of objective criteria.  I can't give you an objective list of "Japanese" characteristics and "German" characteristics, because no such lists exist.

I've spent a couple pages of text trying to defend my subjective opinions to you.  At each stage, you say why, and lo and behold, another layer of subjective intangibles is revealed, and once again, you ask me to explain my reasons.  We've been through a couple layers, and you don't appear to be one whit satisfied with any level of explanation so far.  I'm assuming this latest layer will leave you similarly unsatisfied.  If I've failed to live up to your expectations, I won't lose any sleep over it, because I'm in the same camp as buffoons like United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart:

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so.  But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."

--— Justice Potter Stewart, concurring opinion in Jacobellis v. Ohio, 378 U.S. 184 (1964), regarding possible obscenity in The Lovers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

[carsncars]

I think the term we're looking for is je ne sais quoi. And it's different for different people.

For me, the 3-series has it in spades, while the G37 doesn't quite hit the spot the same. The G37 is a better highway ride, performs nearly as well as the 3-series, is better value (even with ridiculously stacked packages), and is likely more reliable. However, the 3-series feels like a nicer package to me--of course, this is totally subjective. Without waxing too philosophical, the 3-series just has more (almost dignified) presence and personality.

But hey, I'm not complaining. The more choices, the better. That's why we have multiple car manufacturers and competition between them, right? One man's G37 is another man's 3-series.

Think of the Jaguar XJ. It's long been surpassed by its competitors.  It's expensive, relatively short on space, doesn't have that many toys, and is typically outperformed and outhandled by the competition. But it's got a certain air about it that keeps buyers coming back (at least, a few buyers...). I believe Jeremy Clarkson referred to cars like that as having "a sense of history"--I can relate.

[Altima1]

It's all about history, a real estate agent showing up in a Jag or BMW or Mercedes would convey that perception of being more successful to the client than showing up with an Acura, Infiniti or Lexus.  Can we honestly say that the first 3 are better than the last 3?  Absolutely not. 

[Jaeger]

The heavy, bulbous lines of the G35 (inside and out) strike me as very un-Japanese, as does the heavy control feel (heavy steering, severely heavy clutch, high-effort shifter) in the previous generation.  Haven't test-driven this generation.

Lexus has done bulbous for a loooong time.  I guess they aren't terribly Japanese, either.

I haven't driven the G37, but I have driven the G-35 - the recent one of the current model generation.  I found the clutch and shifter a bit on the heavy side, but not objectionably so.  About the same as the new Hyundai Genesis Coupe.  In both, I noticed the heavyness at the beginning of the test drive, but forgot it by the end.

"I know it when I see it" is a bit of a cop-out in the context of the present discussion - as your belated efforts (thank you) to actually provide some basis for your conclusions clearly demonstrates.  It turns out that you CAN at least articulate same, if you but choose to do so.  I, for one, am not shocked.

Jaeger

[Mattesa]

The '05-'06 cars feel very un-Japanese to me as well. 

I'll provide examples in no particular order:
- The profile, tightly packaged with short overhangs.
- The exterior styling, very geometric with logical lines, and no "smiley face".
- The doors are heavy and close with a solid thump.
- The interior styling is super unconventional but clean.  Again very geometric.  Tilt steering+gauge pod, unique vents.
- Interior styling remains clean for door panels.
- The seat controls are on the transmission side of the seats beside the centre console.
- Seats are firm.
- Heavy, somewhat friction-y steering.
- Stiff ride.
- RWD.

These are all good things IMO, and it's the details that makes the G35 such an interesting car still.

The current gen looks a bit more generic, but it's an improvement in every area.  Up against the 3-Series, the ONLY thing the 3-Series does better is driving feel.  That's it.  One.  That sublime... magical... feel (how the hell did they do it?) would be lost on 99% of the people out there, and for the remaining 1%, a $10,000 difference is what you're paying for it.

[Mitlov]

The heavy, bulbous lines of the G35 (inside and out) strike me as very un-Japanese, as does the heavy control feel (heavy steering, severely heavy clutch, high-effort shifter) in the previous generation.  Haven't test-driven this generation.

Lexus has done bulbous for a loooong time.  I guess they aren't terribly Japanese, either.

I can't disagree.  Until L-Finesse design came along, their styling was pretty unapologetically derivative of Mercedes-Benz.  The new IS, while still very curvy instead of linear, has a very light, delicate design exterior design, and a very technophile feel to the interior, both of which I think of as pretty Japanese.  The LF-A was going to be the ultimate expression of L-Finesse in my opinion, and "felt" very Japanese to me.  Shame they canned it to direct more efforts to cars like the HS250h  *le sigh*  However, the LS's design still strikes me as very Teutonic, and I don't think that's an accident. 

NOTE:  These are all oversimplifications that are imprecise attempts to give words to a gut feeling.  You will of course find exceptions if you pick around long enough, but since I'm just trying to express a "feel," not describe a bright-line-rule, digging for those exceptions doesn't undermine my point IMO.

"I know it when I see it" is a bit of a cop-out in the context of the present discussion - as your belated efforts (thank you) to actually provide some basis for your conclusions clearly demonstrates.  It turns out that you CAN at least articulate same, if you but choose to do so.  I, for one, am not shocked.

These sorts of passive-aggressive jabs (saying that you had high expectations for me out of one side of your mouth while calling several of my posts a "cop-out" and saying that my "efforts" were "belated" (despite the fact that I'd written several pages of text explaining myself)) are not inspiring me to continue writing lengthy posts.  In the future, if you'd like me to spend a lot of time explaining myself to you in a courteous, intellectual conversation, try being a little more courteous yourself, instead of just tacking a backhanded complement on the end of a snarky post.  Seriously.

[Oz]

Alright, now you two shake hands.

[Just Bob]

or get a room! 

[dbw]

I recently drove a G37s coupe. Fun car and it is/was on my shortlist. That is, until I visited the service dept to ask a few questions re required maintenance and was informed by the dealership here in MB that a special oil from Infiniti (Ester oil - whatever that is) is required and with this oil  the price an oil change with tax is $150+. And it is required every 3 months or 6000km. Interesting when a BMW 335 or Boxster is good for 20,000+km - and they all put out about the same HP/Litre. This could be a very expensive car to maintain.

It is a great car but based on that it would cost me 4 -5 oil changes per year.

And here is  something interesting.....I called Infiniti Canada and they said this oil was not a requirement. So is the dealership trying for a cash grab or the Infiniti Canada rep wrong?

[dbw]

One more thought on Nissaan/Infiniti......

I bought new a nicely equipped 2003 Maxima. Could have got a BMW 325 for the same price. Fast forward 4 years when the time came to get another car the Nissan was worth $10,000 less. When you crunch the numbers that is another $200/Month in just depreciation on top of regular operating costs.....and BMW would have paid for their maintenance for 4 yrs/80000km. For me, as I usually keep a vehicle for 3 -4 years and run 27 - 30000 km/yr is is something to consider.

[wing]

A Maxima is more the size of a 5 series than a 3-series though.  A 3-series is about the size of a sentra....

[Altima1]

I recently drove a G37s coupe. Fun car and it is/was on my shortlist. That is, until I visited the service dept to ask a few questions re required maintenance and was informed by the dealership here in MB that a special oil from Infiniti (Ester oil - whatever that is) is required and with this oil  the price an oil change with tax is $150+. And it is required every 3 months or 6000km. Interesting when a BMW 335 or Boxster is good for 20,000+km - and they all put out about the same HP/Litre. This could be a very expensive car to maintain.

It is a great car but based on that it would cost me 4 -5 oil changes per year.

And here is  something interesting.....I called Infiniti Canada and they said this oil was not a requirement. So is the dealership trying for a cash grab or the Infiniti Canada rep wrong?

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/What_Is_Ester_Oil.aspx