Michelin X-Ice Xi2 vs Toyo Observe G-02 Plus

[rrocket]

I'm about an hour drive from the Niagra Falls or Bufallo border, although ordering from TireRack would be much more convenient.

I believe you can have them shipped to one of their recommened installers in the USA, so you can cut down on the high shipping charges to Canada.

I have never ordered from them, but hopefully some on here who have can share their experience.

Yes, you can do exactly that.  Have done it a few times.  Did something similar with tires purchased from Discount Tire Direct...sent it to their retail store for installation.

BTW, we LOVE our X-Ice 2.  The wear thus far is excellent.

did you have them installed down there or did you just pick them up?

I went and picked them up.....But we've had other tires sent here with no worries.

[Noobee]

were there not some unhappy XIiCE OWNERS ON HERE LATELY..............OR..perchance they got the previous version XIce's.................see this happening a LOT.....new and IMPROVED still use almost the same name....e.g the Nordic Ice's from Crappy Tyre....big improvement on ice handling on the new version but the Stores were FULL of the old stuff.............trying to get the perfect tyre is somewaht like trying to get the perfect  (name your poison here)...there is'nt one ...just an approximation of goodness..........seeing as there are so many cars..sizes..driving styles..and weather patterns where U live.......Michelin makes good sh*t IMHO...pleased with my all season Pilot Altos...even in a blizzard....

Count me as one of the unhappy X-ICE i2s campers.  I am sure the original X-Ice fare much better in BC's wet snow than the new gen i2s. I would go for the Toyos, no question about it.  They have a lot of more grip, you can see it.  The X-ice i2s are really a studless ice tire.

[Altima1]

Can't beat the Toyo, we have them on the Altima, Versa.  They are excellent.

[02MP5MT]

Thanks all for the feddback.  I picked up a set of used OEM alloys for $360 this morning from a private seller and found a Toyo dealer that will sell me the G-02 Plus tires for $681.79 out the door...then I'll send in the $60 rebate to the manufacturer.  Not too shabby.

Thanks again

[DKaz]

The Toyo G02 Pluses look good, I may just settles on these for the winter. Good aggressive snow tread pattern and rubber compound, crystals that wick away moisture from the surface (like what the WS-60, Xi2s, and iG20s have), and Microbit technology to bite into ice, what's not to like with these.

205/60R16 with 16" steel wheels I was quoted at $999 all taxes and levies in at my local independent tire dealer. 1010 was asking $1102 + taxes, proving that sometimes online is not always best. (These tires aren't available at TR or TT)

[Noobee]

I know....the price u got is great.  I just may pick them up instead of the Winterforces from the dealer. Mind you the Winterforces are rated very highl and you can add studs to them too.  It's too bad TR doesnt have these Toyos as I would like to see how they stack up the Firestone Winterforces. On a side note, the Yokohama Ice Guard IG20 seem to be the one to beat as they're only a bit more expensive then the Toyos as compared on APA's website.  They also perform very well on ice too.

[DKaz]

The Winterforces are not very good on ice without studs though so I heard, and our winters are just way too mild to have studs on. They look awesome in the snow though.

The microbits on the Toyos do seem too small to be truly effective but then the addition of lamenella crystals to wick away surface moisture might help as well.

The Yokohama iG20s I ran last year were extremely good on ice and snow, but the tread wore a bit too quickly for my liking, they only had 11/32" tread to start and was down to 9/32" by the end of one winter (10,000km) and would've only lasted two more, although with the Yokohamas the special tread compound is for the life of the tire, not just the first 60%. The Toyos start off at 13/32" tread so should have four winters of use in it. I'm not sure if the special tread compound is just for part or all of its life. We shouldn't run winters with less than 5/32" anyway, some people argue 7/32" but man I'm not made of money. lol.

It seems that the Xi2s are awesome on ice but just ok in snow? I would've considered them for the better treadwear though. hm.

[Noobee]

Your experience with the Yokohamas seem too be consistent with what the APA has written about them and  that they are in the same league as the Blizzaks and will likely wear early on.

Unfortunately, the i2s are  "bad" in my view on wet snow and snow in general that's more than a few inches deep.  Michelin's literature markets them as an studdless ice tire. The rubber compound is really soft and does a really good job sticking to ice as far as rubber tire goes, but not a studded tire.  The lack of an aggressive tread doesn't give them much opportunity to grab and spit out the snow to get you going or stopping. Last year when the snow was really dry in Metro Vancouver, the i2s really disappointed me.

I spent hours, about 20 hours testing these tires in the various conditions around town. I could get around most of the time, but there was considerable spinning of tires even in second gear and when feathering the accelerator. I got stuck once and I had to use my winter driver's training to get me out of one predicament.  Another time, I had to get the wife to help me as well.  The deciding factor was how one women driving her older Jetta with all season tires had only a slight bit more difficulty going through an intersection than I did with her all seasons. That made me livid. This was in an area where I lived and I went out for a walk shortly after parking my car.

A lot of people buy into the hype and they also want to feel good about spending a lot of money on a product.  Rarely will do they leave their ego or pride at the door and admit that they've made a mistake in their purchasing decision.  I believe this is partly  true of the i2s as well as the fact their situation, environment, driver's skill and vehicle's ability all play a factor in how a winter tire performs.

As far as ice goes, they do work well.  But they still can NOT stop you on ice unless you go super super slow, like less than 1 mph; otherwise you'll slide.  As with all tires, eventually you'll stop. And when we encounter a patch of black ice, we're usually going more than a few mphs.

[DKaz]

Your experience with the Yokohamas seem too be consistent with what the APA has written about them and  that they are in the same league as the Blizzaks and will likely wear early on.

Yea, otherwise without a doubt I would've gone back to Yokohama, they were excellent tires. But right now the Toyos look like they perform almost as good as the Yokohama and last an extra season, I just hope it performs just as well on ice because this was the iG20's bread and butter.

Last year when the snow was really dry in Metro Vancouver, the i2s really disappointed me.

I spent hours, about 20 hours testing these tires in the various conditions around town. I could get around most of the time, but there was considerable spinning of tires even in second gear and when feathering the accelerator. I got stuck once and I had to use my winter driver's training to get me out of one predicament.  Another time, I had to get the wife to help me as well.  The deciding factor was how one women driving her older Jetta with all season tires had only a slight bit more difficulty going through an intersection than I did with her all seasons.

Dry snow in general is pretty hard to tackle (fortunately we mostly get wet snow in Vancouver, but last year was weird), the WR G2s were not that great in it while the Yokohamas were ok starting off, some slippage, did require a little winter driving discretion, although it did an excellent job stopping in it. I think this type of snow is better handled by say the Pirelli Winter Carving type snow tires and RWD/AWD rather than FWD vehicles. Anytime you introduce circumferential grooves in a tire, you increase highway speed and wet stability but you also decrease sheer snow grip, and the Yokos had 4 of them. However judging by your comments, it seemed that the Xi2s were just as bad as the WR G2s while the Yokos were decent because of the aggressive tread pattern regardless. The Toyos only have two, and an aggressive variable sawtooth tread down the middle, I look forward to trying them out.

As far as ice goes, they do work well.  But they still can NOT stop you on ice unless you go super super slow, like less than 1 mph; otherwise you'll slide.  As with all tires, eventually you'll stop. And when we encounter a patch of black ice, we're usually going more than a few mphs.

Black ice in general will cause problems unless you have studded tires. It seems that ice is a bigger problem than snow but 75% of the time we're driving on dry or wet pavement so studs are just plain undesirable for day to day driving. I dunno if your 3 as stability control, my 5 doesn't, but I that technology combined with good studless winter tires have been shown to decrease the rate of accidents due to black ice considerably, around 55% I heard.

Do you think El Nino will play out this year? I think only FOX News was claiming that El Nino would ruin our winter olympics this year, but Russ Lacate on News 1130 is claiming that we'll be pretty warm through to November then expect really wintry conditions from December onwards, as if last winter wasn't cold enough lol.

[Noobee]

I always believed going through dry snow was much easier then wet snow, especialy since many Albertans drive in the winter with all season tires. At least with the powdery stuff, it won't stick to your tires much and it'll allow more traction as opposed to pact snow on your tire.  I seen that with the i2s.  The wet stuff just stuck to the tire and gave very little traction. What was really cool about the i2s though was that I could stop on really thick ice.  I actually got out of the car and it was really slippery to walk on the ice so I went back inside the car. That was really cool. However, once I started moving, it was a different story. 

My 3 doesnt have any stablity control.  I hear Mazda introduced some really sophisticated traction and stablility controls in the higher end Mazda3s this year. It has yaw control too. I just got a loaner tonight from the dealer but the 2009 3 that I have doesn't have the stability control. Too bad.

As far as the winter goes, unless they get their weather from the Farmer's Almanac or some crystal ball, I dont see how they can predict the weather long term.  Did anyone predict us getting 27 degree temps on the second day of fall in the spring?  I dunno. But, in a way, I do hope it gets bad cuz we all want to justify the extra expense of buying winter tires. Besides, a lot of people want the weather to be bad for the Olympics and because of that, it won't be.   They can always make snow.

BTW, I sent you a PM.

[Traum]

Sorry to see that you didn't fare so well with your Xi2 last year. My RWD Miata with the same Xi2 tires in the same Vancouver took me everywhere I wanted to go during the storms last year as long as I had enough ground clearance. So maybe the car has something to do with it?

-Lik

Unfortunately, the i2s are  "bad" in my view on wet snow and snow in general that's more than a few inches deep.  Michelin's literature markets them as an studdless ice tire. The rubber compound is really soft and does a really good job sticking to ice as far as rubber tire goes, but not a studded tire.  The lack of an aggressive tread doesn't give them much opportunity to grab and spit out the snow to get you going or stopping. Last year when the snow was really dry in Metro Vancouver, the i2s really disappointed me.

[Lexusfreak]

You won't go wrong with the Toyo's & smart move on the alloys too.  Enjoy! 

   

[Noobee]

Sorry to see that you didn't fare so well with your Xi2 last year. My RWD Miata with the same Xi2 tires in the same Vancouver took me everywhere I wanted to go during the storms last year as long as I had enough ground clearance. So maybe the car has something to do with it?-Lik

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I do feel the car had a lot to do with it, for sure,  but it's also the tires.  I was calling around for the last week and many tire shops are coming forward suggesting the X-i2s are not as good as the first generation X-Ice.  I also took my car with the i2s out into areas where one normally wouldn't go to test them out, so I gave them a really good work-out.  Most people wouldnt ever do that, especially if they have never driven with snow tires before.

[rrocket]

Sorry to see that you didn't fare so well with your Xi2 last year. My RWD Miata with the same Xi2 tires in the same Vancouver took me everywhere I wanted to go during the storms last year as long as I had enough ground clearance. So maybe the car has something to do with it?

-Lik

Same here!  We LOVE our Xi2.  On a RWD Lexus IS300 with 17" wheels.  Went anywhere no problem.  We are very impressed with these tires.

[Noobee]

Same here!  We LOVE our Xi2.  On a RWD Lexus IS300 with 17" wheels.  Went anywhere no problem.  We are very impressed with these tires.

A Lexus???  Even a bald tire would perform well on a Lexus.   

[rrocket]

Same here!  We LOVE our Xi2.  On a RWD Lexus IS300 with 17" wheels.  Went anywhere no problem.  We are very impressed with these tires.

A Lexus???  Even a bald tire would perform well on a Lexus.   

We had the LM22/23 before..and we thought they were MUCH inferior to the Xi2....

[Guy]

I was just quoted $139.00 per tires for Toyo's Obeserve G02 Plus in 215-65-16. This is including installation but before taxes. Including the mail-in rebate of $15./tire, it comes out at $124. per tire.

[02MP5MT]

I was just quoted $139.00 per tires for Toyo's Obeserve G02 Plus in 215-65-16. This is including installation but before taxes. Including the mail-in rebate of $15./tire, it comes out at $124. per tire.

seems like a pretty good price.  make sure the price includes installation AND balancing.  the shop may also convince you that you need the wheels aligned, may not be necissary.

happy motoring!

[Guy]

Yes, it does include balancing. Thanks

[Paul L]

Yes, it does include balancing. Thanks

Guy,

Which shop is that?  Is that a national chain?  I am from Regina and can't get such a good quote.

We have a 09 Lancer with stock size 205/60R16 and think of a set of 205/65R15.

Thanks.