03 Montana 3.4 - Need help with head gasket/lean mixture problem

[bowser]

Ok Barrie et. al. - I need some help

Wife was 450km from home with 4yr old and 2 yr old visiting family on labour day weekend.  I got a call on the Saturday to say she noticed that the heat guage was climbing on her way into town.  I give her credit that she noticed the guage before the dummy light came on.  She waited for it to cool and eventually limped it to Canadian Tire (CT) approx 3km without it overheating too much.

Every shop in the town was booked for over a week but a couple recommended the CT tech as he was a GM tech previously.  CT warned me that if the engine was overheated too much it could have caused other problems in the engine.  I said it wasnt ran overheated for very long.

They replaced the intake manifold gasket.  I paid my $950 (new intake gasket, new plugs, new thermostat, oil change).

She picked it up after it was fixed and drove it directly home (approx 350km or 3.5hours non stop).  When I got home I asked her why did it smell of gas so bad.  I had a look and the top of the plenum was covered in a pool of gas.  I turned the key on to get the fuel pump to run and one of the injectors was not sealed in the fuel rail and was pumping gas onto the top of the engine.

The van was towed to another more local CT.  They sealed the injector.  But I couldnt get the van out of their parking lot on three tries without it overheating almost instanatly.  They burped the system three times and eventually told me the head gasket is gone.  The coolant reservoir overpressurizes.  Combustion gasses entering into coolant system.

Last night I stuck a compression tester onto the spark plug holes.  Guess what - the cylinder that is not holding its compression is the same cylinder that had the injector off the fuel rail for a 3.5hr (350km) drive.

Is this coincidence??

I think there was a lean air/fuel mixture in that cylinder for 3.5hr of operation that caused the normal combustion temperature to soar in that cylinder and resulted in the formation of a localized hot spot and head gasket failure.

I am no mechanic.  I was going to give them the benifit of the doubt and accept the fact that the vehicle may have been overheated too much before that caused a head gasket failure and I was going to scrap the van.  But know I think there error may have caused my problem.

Do you guys agree?  or is this a stretch of the imagination?  I would like to get a bit of a opinion for those that know before I talk to them?

What should I be demanding of them?

Thanks for the help

[articsteve]

What should I be demanding of them?


Like in any nebulous negotiation; everything.  The GREAT thing you got going for you is you have another CT shop identifying that a portion, a critical part of the original repair, was in error.  That should be enough for a full refund considering it put your wife and kids at great risk and that the repair did not last 30 days.

How much was the second bill from the second CT store?  How many kms on this fine piece of GM engineering?

 

[Honda Owner]

How many kms on this fine piece of GM engineering?

Probably around 60,001.

But the above condition never occurred. GM cars never break. Anyone who says they do are part of the overall conspiracy.

[bowser]

The second bill from CT for resealing the injector into the rail and the subsequent burbing of the baby was $0.00 to me.  Not sure what they billed the other out of town CT store for though.

There is 168,000km on the van.  Not to sound like Barrie but the intake manifold gasket on my '96 3.1 olds ciera was done around 170,000km and it lasted me to 305,000km.  I guess a testament to the mechanic that did the job - he did it right.  Retired it last year.

Called the dealer about the hidden recall (or whatever you call it).  He told me it was a 5 year / 100,000 km recall and I was late by about a year and 60,000km.

I am not looking for a full refund of my origianl bill of $950 - I will be looking for them to install a slightly used engine for nothing (a $2300 value plus tax) since it is their mistake that ruined the motor.

Am I going to get this?? or just a refund?

[articsteve]

The second bill from CT for resealing the injector into the rail and the subsequent burbing of the baby was $0.00 to me.  Not sure what they billed the other out of town CT store for though.

Interesting.  So the original CT store has acknowledged some degree of responsibility.

I will be looking for them to install a slightly used engine for nothing (a $2300 value plus tax) since it is their mistake that ruined the motor.

 

Am I going to get this?? or just a refund?

If you get a refund I would consider that a major victory.

I don't want to purposely upset you, but that Montana of yours, on a wholesale basis, is only worth the cost of the repair, at best.  It was a junker and it's over and time to move on.  Getting your repair money back would be the best possible outcome.  Remember, your not the only party in this affair to LOSE.

[bowser]

Dont worry you wont upset me.  I like the laughing guy you put into your response.

I am asking for other frank opinions and that is what I want.

I know that the vehicle to anyone else is junk given its age and km's even with a working engine.  We have been contemplating another vehicle but truthfully the wife likes the van and it was very practical.  The van is worth something to us - if it was working.  Initially I was dead against putting $2300 into it again (i.e. a used engine) just to have something else go wrong but later thought that if it lasted another year it wouldnt be too bad.  Can swing $2300 easier than $16,000 for something decent (Rav4, > '06 entourage, > '06 sedona, etc, etc) or new ($30,000).

Just think - I stopped at the GM dealer yesterday to look at the Equinox/Terrain after the wife saw a Nitro in a used parking lot and said she liked it and we were supprised you could actually fit a person or baby seat in the back seats.  I actually liked it.  You would think I would have learned a lesson by now.

or better still maybe I will go down to TO (Toro Rd and Tangiers Rd) where the mad russians are flipping '07 off lease SV6's with 100,000km on them for $10,000 like pancakes everyday.  The 3.9's are better than the 3.5/3.4/3.1/2.8 arent they?  I guess it doesnt take much.

Some people never learn - where is Barrie in all of this? - I guess we will see tomorrow morning after he writes his responses in the early morning.

[mrthompson]

Barrie's no longer on the forum.

[bowser]

I guess maybe you are upsetting me a bit. More to do with your comment "Remember, your not the only party in this affair to LOSE".

The shop didnt have to tackle the job if they were not confident that they could do it correctly.

I also question whether the shop exercised any or sufficient due diligence?  Namely did they take if for a long enough test run after the repair or even simpler did they just let it run in the shop for 1/2 hour to get it up to temp at least for a while.  The gas smell and amount of gas pouring out was pretty obvious.  When I came home that night I didnt even have to open the hood of the van to know something was wrong - I walked 25' past it directly to my front door and knew something was wrong with it given the fumes in the air.

[articsteve]

where is Barrie in all of this?

I think he sold a "90s" Cadillac Fleetwood to a member of the Russian Mafia in London, ON, and soon after vanished from the forum. 

The shop didnt have to tackle the job if they were not confident that they could do it correctly.

"The shop"     You mean a Canadian Tire franchise    Come on.  BUYER BEWARE.  That is just so assumed when you give your vehicle over to those ppl for critical repairs.  Remember, they did WARN you.  You're treading on thin ice.

The CT mechanic lost his wage, the store lost all the parts plus the bill from the other place, and you lost your Montana that was right on schedule to BLOW UP anyways.  It's a LOSE, LOSE, LOSE repeated a million times over I'm sure on this very same series of GM mastery.

Get your money back and move on SIR!

[bowser]

Thanks again for the help - you have definitly assisted me with my claim and what is reasonable to expect.  It is good to hear arguments from the other side to put things in perspective.

I wasnt going to mention CT thinking it may sway the level of compassion for me (i.e. get what I deserve).  I was of the same opinion.  I learned 15 years ago never to go to CT and have never entered their repair shop door since. 

However, I called the northern ontario dealers in town at the time and the wait for the repair was 1.5 weeks.  I asked the guys then where do I go? CT?  The dealer said in a pinch.  I replied well I am in a F&%$ing pinch.  (I didnt say F&%$ing.).  And he said well the mechanic there is a previous GM Tech from another major city that he knows personally and he would be good.  I said "Are you then recommending this shop then" and he said yes.  So the story goes.

Anyways - I was expecting a comment/insight into a decision to purchase a Equinox/Terrain (i.e. that they are no better vehicle builders than they were in the ninetys) or that 3.9L is no good either.  But does it go without saying?

Is the '07 3.9L any good in the SV6's for a steal at $10,000? 

Are the equinoxes/terrains a new breed that will compete with Honda crv/ rav4's?

Maybe these are left for another day/another forum.

Thanks again for the help

[bowser]

where is Barrie in all of this?

I think he sold a "90s" Cadillac Fleetwood to a member of the Russian Mafia in London, ON, and soon after vanished from the forum. 


No seriously - what happened to Barrie?  Can we talk about it?  I followed the forum numerous years ago and have since not been able to keep up with it but actually met Barrie breifly when I was in london.  He was kind of a one man band for GM - hope he didnt leave because of that.

[PJungnitsch]

Anyways - I was expecting a comment/insight into a decision to purchase a Equinox/Terrain (i.e. that they are no better vehicle builders than they were in the ninetys) or that 3.9L is no good either.  But does it go without saying?

Are the equinoxes/terrains a new breed that will compete with Honda crv/ rav4's?

Performance-wise they've certainly tested out well, but all of GM's new vehicle introductions have been troublesome in the first year or two. They seem to get the bugs out eventually in many of them.

The only exception (AFAIK) has been the Malibu, but it was not really a new vehicle, more a further refinement of the G6/Aura design.

[articsteve]

No seriously - what happened to Barrie?  Can we talk about it?  I followed the forum numerous years ago and have since not been able to keep up with it but actually met Barrie briefly when I was in london.  He was kind of a one man band for GM - hope he didnt leave because of that.


Truth be told Barrie had some mobility issues with hips or knees.  By his own admission he took "medication".  He stayed up pretty late.  Usually he would come on line near midnight and stay till 2:00 am, at which time I think the medication and perhaps the odd beer got him going.  He was not exactly hard to excite.  The later the time of post, the more colourful his posts became.  I did not mind at bit.  However, some ppl took offense and kept reporting him and, IMO, the super moderator just got tired of receiving E-mails so it was just easier to kick him off.  To be fair to the moderator, he did get a few warnings, but he was too easily goaded and just could not control himself.

[articsteve]

However, I called the northern ontario dealers in town at the time and the wait for the repair was 1.5 weeks.  I asked the guys then where do I go? CT?  The dealer said in a pinch.  I replied well I am in a F&%$ing pinch.  (I didnt say F&%$ing.).  And he said well the mechanic there is a previous GM Tech from another major city that he knows personally and he would be good.  I said "Are you then recommending this shop then" and he said yes.  So the story goes.

You were between a ROCK and a HARD place.  It was the fickle finger of FATE. No escape. 

If you do get a full refund, the good news is that your wife and kids got a ride home.  That's a big plus despite the danger.

Anyways - I was expecting a comment/insight into a decision to purchase a Equinox/Terrain (i.e. that they are no better vehicle builders than they were in the ninetys) or that 3.9L is no good either.  But does it go without saying?

There is no way the Equinox/Terrain will be as bad as a Montanna, et al.  It's all about the PRICE POINT.


Are the equinoxes/terrains a new breed that will compete with Honda crv/ rav4's?

Not in this lifetime.

But there again it's all about what one can afford.  Sure the Rav 4 with the 4 banger is a no brainer, but again it's all about the money.

 

[2hondas]

Get a used 1 or 2 year old Caravan...can be had for dirt cheap.

/thread.

[Leviathan]

Anyways - I was expecting a comment/insight into a decision to purchase a Equinox/Terrain (i.e. that they are no better vehicle builders than they were in the ninetys)
.... 
Are the equinoxes/terrains a new breed that will compete with Honda crv/ rav4's?

The new Equinox/Terrain are getting good reviews and are a whole different breed than the Montanas. Start with these two threads:
2010 GMC Terrain
2010 Chevy Equinox

[Honda Owner]

The new Equinox/Terrain are getting good reviews and are a whole different breed than the Montanas.

All new vehicles get good reviews. Pan anything and your publication will not see another red cent of advertising money from the manufacturer for about an eon, maybe two. I cannot recall an auto mag ever really panning anything GM has ever made. Even the Aztek had rave reviews.

The real measure of a vehicle is how well it performs after the warranty is up, just like the poster here is describing.

[rrocket]

The new Equinox/Terrain are getting good reviews and are a whole different breed than the Montanas.

All new vehicles get good reviews. Pan anything and your publication will not see another red cent of advertising money from the manufacturer for about an eon, maybe two. I cannot recall an auto mag ever really panning anything GM has ever made. Even the Aztek had rave reviews.

The real measure of a vehicle is how well it performs after the warranty is up, just like the poster here is describing.

Exactly....3 year dependability study is where it's at...

[mrthompson]

Get a used 1 or 2 year old Caravan...can be had for dirt cheap.

/thread.

+1

[Leviathan]

The real measure of a vehicle is how well it performs after the warranty is up, just like the poster here is describing.

*I* wouldn't get a CRV due to that. Check out a/c & differential problems.