Service - dealer vs other ways? + Winter tires?

[jtmann]

Hi all. A bit of a newbie question on my first car ( 06 Sebring sedan - 3-year basic warranty expired, 5-year powertrain still in effect):

1. Regular maintenance/checkups
I would prefer NOT to go back to the dealer. Thinking about going to my local Canadian Tire or Wal Mart. I assume as long as sticking to Chryslers schedule (every 5,000 km basically) then I would not run into problems if repair that was covered under warranty was required and went back to deal for that free/warranty repair? Also, any recos on where to go - Cdn Tire, Wal Mart, Costco, others?

2. Winter Tires
Need to switch my all seasons to winters. Can't find anywhere in my owner manual or any plates affixed to car what the specs on the tires are. Could use specs on walls of existing tires, but would they be same for all seasons and winters? Also that assumes the dealership who sold it had the right all seasons on.

Many thanks. Great forum.

[overtakeyouintheleftlane]

Don't go to Crappy tire, Wal-Mart or Costco. I wouldn't want some kid/newbie "learning" on my car. They are the worst for car repairs. My co-worker got his Michelin X-ice tires at Costco in Brampton, ON last fall. When they gave him steel wheels (multi-fit) and he had brake work done (new rotors, pads, etc) it ended up scraping the inside of the rim. His 2002 Camry actually needs rims from Toyota. Costo didn't know this. Very incompetent. If they don't specialize in car repairs/tires, don't buy from them.

Find an independent shop. Try something simple like an oil change at a shop (ask your friends where they go as I find word-of-mouth is a good way to find a mechanic). While you are getting an oil change, look on the wall, the mechanic should have his credentials there. Talk to his customers, see if they are satisfied with his work, how long they have been his customer, etc.

As long as you stick to the manufactuer's maintenance schedule and keep all receipts and work orders, they can't deny warranty work/recalls.

You can find tire size information on the door jam (when you open the driver's door) and you will find information such as tire size, air pressure, etc. If you still can't find it, check your owners manual or ask your mechanic what the size is.

The size may be the same as all season (eg. Buick Allure can't downgrade in size but a Pontiac Grand Am can go from 16" to 15"), however, your car may be able to take a smaller size for winter. Smaller tires work better in snow and it's slightly cheaper for winter rubber and rims.

In regards to your tire size, I checked on Active Green and Ross and 1010 Tires, I'm ASSUMING you have a Chrysler Sebring sedan, if it is, your size is 205/60R16.

[ktm525]

Avoid C tire and Wal mart etc. I feel your pain in going to the delear, especially a Chrysler/Dodge one.  Personally I would either do it yourself or if you don't want to go that route then take it to the dealer until the powertrain warranty is gone.

If you go to the dealer then follow the service intervals and items in your manual. Don't let the dealer talk you into a bunch of seasonal stuff and fluid changes etc. Follow the schedule A (non-severe) and stick to it. Chrysler dealers are pretty cheap for things such as oil changes.

[dash]

Not too defend Costco, but, generally they follow strict guidelines, maybe the tech made the mistake, multi fits are ok, not ideal, in this case the offset must have been way off, tech should have notice/heard the obstruction (that is incompetence), less likely to happen at a dealership.  With multi-fits you are compromising on: offset, hup size and quality. I have used multi-fits in several different applications with no problems.


For oil changes, I go to dealership when warranty is still valid, it is a small premium to pay, for security of quality of service and potential warranty issues.

[jtmann]

Thanks for the suggestions all. Re: independent shops:

1. Assuming I did adhere to Chrylser's maintentance schedule and had the papework to prove it, would I be on same footing in trying to make warranty repair if I went to an independent vs a "known national chain" like CT or Walmart?

2. Other than friends/family, is there any "official" endorsement that "good" independents have such as associations memberships, accredidations etc?

Thanks again

Don't go to Crappy tire, Wal-Mart or Costco. I wouldn't want some kid/newbie "learning" on my car. They are the worst for car repairs. My co-worker got his Michelin X-ice tires at Costco in Brampton, ON last fall. When they gave him steel wheels (multi-fit) and he had brake work done (new rotors, pads, etc) it ended up scraping the inside of the rim. His 2002 Camry actually needs rims from Toyota. Costo didn't know this. Very incompetent. If they don't specialize in car repairs/tires, don't buy from them.

Find an independent shop. Try something simple like an oil change at a shop (ask your friends where they go as I find word-of-mouth is a good way to find a mechanic). While you are getting an oil change, look on the wall, the mechanic should have his credentials there. Talk to his customers, see if they are satisfied with his work, how long they have been his customer, etc.

As long as you stick to the manufactuer's maintenance schedule and keep all receipts and work orders, they can't deny warranty work/recalls.

You can find tire size information on the door jam (when you open the driver's door) and you will find information such as tire size, air pressure, etc. If you still can't find it, check your owners manual or ask your mechanic what the size is.

The size may be the same as all season (eg. Buick Allure can't downgrade in size but a Pontiac Grand Am can go from 16" to 15"), however, your car may be able to take a smaller size for winter. Smaller tires work better in snow and it's slightly cheaper for winter rubber and rims.

In regards to your tire size, I checked on Active Green and Ross and 1010 Tires, I'm ASSUMING you have a Chrysler Sebring sedan, if it is, your size is 205/60R16.

[toolatecrew]

I hate to say this but I would give the dealer a shot right up until warranty expires. CHeck out what the dealer price is for a basic oil change. If its close then I would use the dealer (as long as you review with them exactly what service you need based on the owner manual). Why? It certainly sin't becuase I want to pay exra. BUT as long as you are not spending a LOT more for service you get some additional benifits. Dealers will have first notice of any reaclls, they have easy access to service bullitens (to fix known problems). There is also the courtesy or "hidden" waranties that you only get from a dealer. I had a 98 Neon (yes I know :-() The head gasket went after the warranty. An independeant would have charged me big $ to replace. Becuase it was a known issue the chysler dealer covered the cost of all the labour. I paid only for the gasket. Big savings. If you have purchased the car from the dealer sometimes they will give you a break to try to retain your busness for the next car purchase.

I'm not saying go to the dealer for everything.I' m not saying an independent can't service as well or better..they can. My point is if the $ difference is marginal the dealer route is eaiser and can have benifts you don't think about. (I agree Costco is for giant boxes of Captain Crunch not oil changes, Wal Mart is for cheap DVDs and Crappy tire is for car wash soap or scredrivers not service to your car.)

[jtmann]

Thanks. Its not a money issue why I am avoiding the dealer. It is the unbelievably poor and unethical treatment (long story) I received from dealer after I bought the car. Let's just say I'd rather bring the car anywhere for service than the dealer on principle alone. I don't use the words liar or slimy lightly, but this dealer is both. I despise them.

Re: your comment, I read the book Lemon Aid. If a repair was identified by an independent then my plan was to go to the "hidden warranty"/recall sources listed in Lemon Aid, find if the repair was covered and then take the car to the dealer demanding coverage.

Any thoughts on this process? And if I go independent, any answers to my questions above re Chryslers view on idnepdents vs national chains for warranty coverage, and independent "official" endorsements/accredidations?

Or do I just bury my hatred for this dealer and suck it up and bring the car there until the powertrain warranty expires?

Thanks all

I hate to say this but I would give the dealer a shot right up until warranty expires. CHeck out what the dealer price is for a basic oil change. If its close then I would use the dealer (as long as you review with them exactly what service you need based on the owner manual). Why? It certainly sin't becuase I want to pay exra. BUT as long as you are not spending a LOT more for service you get some additional benifits. Dealers will have first notice of any reaclls, they have easy access to service bullitens (to fix known problems). There is also the courtesy or "hidden" waranties that you only get from a dealer. I had a 98 Neon (yes I know :-() The head gasket went after the warranty. An independeant would have charged me big $ to replace. Becuase it was a known issue the chysler dealer covered the cost of all the labour. I paid only for the gasket. Big savings. If you have purchased the car from the dealer sometimes they will give you a break to try to retain your busness for the next car purchase.

I'm not saying go to the dealer for everything.I' m not saying an independent can't service as well or better..they can. My point is if the $ difference is marginal the dealer route is eaiser and can have benifts you don't think about. (I agree Costco is for giant boxes of Captain Crunch not oil changes, Wal Mart is for cheap DVDs and Crappy tire is for car wash soap or scredrivers not service to your car.)

[overtakeyouintheleftlane]

jtmann - Try http://www.caasco.com/automotive/auto-repair/auto-repair-facility-locations.jsp

or consult your local BBB (Better Business Bureau) to see if a shop that you are interested in has any complaints against them or if it's recommended by them. Word of mouth is best.


If you go to an independet, try to build a relationship with them. Be friendly, get to know them, their names, bring coffee/donuts/Iced cappucinos once in a while. They appreciate it. When you refer business to their shop like I do (I've sent about 4 people to my mechanic) he tends to waive some labour charges, replaces light bulbs, rotates and swaps tires no charge as I bring them business and I'm an easy-going customer. I don't expect him to give me discounts, but he does or will lower the bill once in a while.

Shop around.

[safristi]

..HI Dad......... ...................... .................these "mythical INDEPENDENT GOLDEN MECHANIC SHOPS" ...where are they..........bit of a fantasy for MOST....and if ya have one would ya share................i can't imagine these Magic MECHANICS having had the latest update workshops on latest models.............i imagine some are ex (for example) VW Shop mechanics...........and why are they now independent...FIRED  or TIRED............or wanna BE their own BOSS........and if the latter and U have the car model/brand (out of Warranty) give them a fewe simple jobs to do and then ramp it UP and PRAY they don't fack up yer Major repair.................NO different from anything else these daze....Health Care ...Politics.......Consumer Stores.......TRadesmen....................

[jtmann]

bump

Thanks. Its not a money issue why I am avoiding the dealer. It is the unbelievably poor and unethical treatment (long story) I received from dealer after I bought the car. Let's just say I'd rather bring the car anywhere for service than the dealer on principle alone. I don't use the words liar or slimy lightly, but this dealer is both. I despise them.

Re: your comment, I read the book Lemon Aid. If a repair was identified by an independent then my plan was to go to the "hidden warranty"/recall sources listed in Lemon Aid, find if the repair was covered and then take the car to the dealer demanding coverage.

Any thoughts on this process? And if I go independent, any answers to my questions above re Chryslers view on idnepdents vs national chains for warranty coverage, and independent "official" endorsements/accredidations?

Or do I just bury my hatred for this dealer and suck it up and bring the car there until the powertrain warranty expires?

Thanks all

I hate to say this but I would give the dealer a shot right up until warranty expires. CHeck out what the dealer price is for a basic oil change. If its close then I would use the dealer (as long as you review with them exactly what service you need based on the owner manual). Why? It certainly sin't becuase I want to pay exra. BUT as long as you are not spending a LOT more for service you get some additional benifits. Dealers will have first notice of any reaclls, they have easy access to service bullitens (to fix known problems). There is also the courtesy or "hidden" waranties that you only get from a dealer. I had a 98 Neon (yes I know :-() The head gasket went after the warranty. An independeant would have charged me big $ to replace. Becuase it was a known issue the chysler dealer covered the cost of all the labour. I paid only for the gasket. Big savings. If you have purchased the car from the dealer sometimes they will give you a break to try to retain your busness for the next car purchase.

I'm not saying go to the dealer for everything.I' m not saying an independent can't service as well or better..they can. My point is if the $ difference is marginal the dealer route is eaiser and can have benifts you don't think about. (I agree Costco is for giant boxes of Captain Crunch not oil changes, Wal Mart is for cheap DVDs and Crappy tire is for car wash soap or scredrivers not service to your car.)

[02MP5MT]

where are you located?  someone on the board may know a good shop in your area.

[ktm525]

Thanks. Its not a money issue why I am avoiding the dealer. It is the unbelievably poor and unethical treatment (long story) I received from dealer after I bought the car. Let's just say I'd rather bring the car anywhere for service than the dealer on principle alone. I don't use the words liar or slimy lightly, but this dealer is both. I despise them.

Re: your comment, I read the book Lemon Aid. If a repair was identified by an independent then my plan was to go to the "hidden warranty"/recall sources listed in Lemon Aid, find if the repair was covered and then take the car to the dealer demanding coverage.

Any thoughts on this process? And if I go independent, any answers to my questions above re Chryslers view on idnepdents vs national chains for warranty coverage, and independent "official" endorsements/accredidations?

Or do I just bury my hatred for this dealer and suck it up and bring the car there until the powertrain warranty expires?

Thanks all

I hate to say this but I would give the dealer a shot right up until warranty expires. CHeck out what the dealer price is for a basic oil change. If its close then I would use the dealer (as long as you review with them exactly what service you need based on the owner manual). Why? It certainly sin't becuase I want to pay exra. BUT as long as you are not spending a LOT more for service you get some additional benifits. Dealers will have first notice of any reaclls, they have easy access to service bullitens (to fix known problems). There is also the courtesy or "hidden" waranties that you only get from a dealer. I had a 98 Neon (yes I know :-() The head gasket went after the warranty. An independeant would have charged me big $ to replace. Becuase it was a known issue the chysler dealer covered the cost of all the labour. I paid only for the gasket. Big savings. If you have purchased the car from the dealer sometimes they will give you a break to try to retain your busness for the next car purchase.

I'm not saying go to the dealer for everything.I' m not saying an independent can't service as well or better..they can. My point is if the $ difference is marginal the dealer route is eaiser and can have benifts you don't think about. (I agree Costco is for giant boxes of Captain Crunch not oil changes, Wal Mart is for cheap DVDs and Crappy tire is for car wash soap or scredrivers not service to your car.)

'
Don't sweat it, it just isn't you. The only new Dodge I bought ended up with threats of lawsuits if the vehicle I ordered wasn't delivered with the equipment as per the signed contract. After much yelling it was resolved. I also had a Dodge service manager tell me they weren't going to fix my f%^&ing truck (their words yelled to my face) (under warranty) because some yahoo had jerry-rigged a previous repair. Guess who? Yeah the dealer.
I then got an invitation in the mail to come down to said dealer for a customer appreciation sale.

Dodge may you rot in hell.

[articsteve]

As long as you stick to the manufacturer's maintenance schedule and keep all receipts and work orders, they can't deny warranty work

You need to post a link that supports the above.

We've already gone thru this recently.  I will use Toyota as an example, but all the companies are the same.  Toyota Canada requires OEM parts to be used in the servicing of their vehicles vis-a-vis warranty work.  Parts include OIL and OIL filters.  Obviously, you can't get this from an independent.

I sympathize with the OP in that the majority of dealer service is absolutely horrendous.  Urban locations are by far the worst.  Rural dealers are much better for the simple reason that business is harder to come by and word of mouth carries some importance.

[overtakeyouintheleftlane]

You can go anywhere to get your car serviced as long as you have all receipts and that OEM parts were used (part #'s indicated in invoice).

Re: oil and oil filter, as long as you use the proper type of filter and grade of oil, there should be no problem (keep invoices and receipts stating filter # and oil grade).

OEM parts are very easy to get, my mechanic just has them delivered and they're there in about 20-30 minutes.

You are not obligated to do your service work at a dealership to keep warranty valid. As long as a licensed mechanic does it with the proper parts, there's no big deal. I've never gone back to the dealer except for warranty work.

[articsteve]

I've never gone back to the dealer except for warranty work.

Depends on the nature of the warranty work.  Bad window motor or something like that then sure regular service history is not an issue.  However, if you have a major internal engine issue and you have no oil change services listed in the Toyota system then sweet dreams getting that covered.  Same thing with the tranny.  If the 48k tranny service is not in the Toyota system then you're SOL.  You can waive all the receipts you want from an independent mechanic it will do you no good.

Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, BMW, MB, Subaru and a few others I'm sure protect their dealers.  They are a long way from GM who treats they're dealers like disposal diapers.  Don't assume and advise ppl that all vehicle warranties are the same.  The only reason GM even offer warranties is because the taxpayer has underwritten them.  The warranty abuse must be horrendous.

[overtakeyouintheleftlane]

Funny thing you mention about tranny fluid service, my father had his 2005 Civic (192,000km)  brought in for service to the independent mechanic (change the bushings, tranny fluid, oil, coolant, etc.), she showed him the tranny fluid draining out, it was never changed (he changed it at at the service manual interval (96,000km I believe) . This work was performed at a certain Honda dealership in Scarborough. My dad is pissed. He had the invoice showing it was done. Trust me, it wasn't done.

Can't trust dealerships.

Funny thing, the same day, they call him regarding purchasing another Civic, he told them where to go as his tranny fluid was never changed even though he paid.

[articsteve]

Like I stated earlier I completely sympathize with the fact that most dealer service in all brands is horrible. Urban dealers being by far the worst.

However, I'm telling new owners of Toyotas, if you are really married to the security of the power train warranty then you must go to the stealer and get the engine oil changed.  At 48 k, depending on model bite the bullet and get the tranny service.

After the 3 year bumper to bumper warranty has expired you might want to forgo the dealer as how many Toyota motors fail?  ZERO.

And you can always bring in your own oil.  Just tell them to leave the empty bottles/jug in the car or your not pay'n.  Trust me on this, ppl who make the biggest stink get their way in the service department.